Karen Swyszcz 0:00
I’m Karen Swyszcz, and you’re listening to The Bacon Bits ‘n’ Bytes Podcast. This is where a bit of business and a byte of technology come together.
Hi everyone, and thank you for tuning in to another episode of The Bacon Bits ‘n’ Bytes Podcast and today I will be chatting with Danielle Meadows-Stinnett. With over 10 years of marketing and multimedia agency experience, Danielle is a grassroots developer and curator helping brand and launched over 75 local businesses across America with the two-thirds of them in Kentucky. Danielle is owner of the minority-led branding agency Octane Design Studios, podcaster, mentor, wife and mom and lover of cosplay, comics, chai tea, air guitar solos, choral music and live MMA. From designing full digital campaigns to designer sneakers. Danielle continues to amplify voices and stories to both inspire and evoke change. She’s an advocate of non-traditional education, leading online meetups and workshops for DIY marketing. Welcome to the show, Danielle.
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 1:17
Karen Swyszcz 1:18
Okay, so I’d like to start off with your background. So how did you get into marketing?
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 1:23
Umm, it actually stemmed from this kind of amazing journey with print journalism. I started out at Western Kentucky University in Bowling Green, Kentucky, with a scholarship for journalism, and that was really my forte. I wanted to be the next black Katie Couric. That was my goal in high school, going into college, and I kind of slowly fell out of love with writing and more in love with design. And so as I’m picking up a lot of other marketing skills that come along with journalism, it just kind of moulded into its own unique platform of Okay, I can switch easily now from writing to designing.
Karen Swyszcz 2:02
So I took a look at your bio, and you have been doing this for over 10 years. So what was the landscape like when you first started and how has it changed?
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 2:13
Um, wow, well, that’s a great question. In a lot of ways, it’s changed because everything evolves. You know, in this particular industry, everything changes within a matter of months as a quick turnaround for knowing what you need to know yesterday. Um, so that definitely has increased over time. In the very beginning, everyone was kind of doing graphic design as a hobby and not really as a profession around me at that time. So when I began to better understand that actually, I could actually use this talent and this gift in a way to actually increase my wealth (laughs). Then it became more realistic for me to take it on a more professional level, but starting out, everyone was doing it as a hobby and now it’s like everyone is doing it legitly so now there’s even more hunger to set yourself apart in the game.
Karen Swyszcz 3:01
And when you first started, did you encounter any obstacles?
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 3:05
Absolutely. And one of the earlier stories I’d love to share that I did in one of my email blasts that I send on a weekly basis. I shared a story once when I first started building Octane Design Studios, a lot of men would think that I was a male-owned business. And there’s one particular instance where I was waiting to be set up for business consultation, and they literally were looking for a man that was the only woman in the waiting room to be seen by this particular client. So when they actually asked for Octane in the lobby, and I got up and this is me, they were absolutely spilled on by the fact that Octane was a woman and not a man. So we’ve come a long way since then, obviously. But those are some of the different ways that Octane has grown and I have grown as far as digital marketing.
Karen Swyszcz 3:58
I really love the name by the way, as you know, it sounds very like a compelling. As you can tell, I guess having the name The Bacon Bits ‘n’ Bytes Podcast, Makin the bacon. I’m a big fan of names and the stories behind them. Can you share how you came up with the name? Was it just like an aha moment or over time you’re like, Okay, I think this is a suitable name for my business.
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 4:19
Well at the time, and I still am very much a very geeky scientific girl. And so I’d like to be able to think that this kind of was both an aha moment and a well, duh moment.
Karen Swyszcz 4:31
(laughs) It was a-ha duh.
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 4:34
Yeah, it really was like, it really was like, Okay, I get it in a Oh, yeah, I could have done that. So that kind of started with me again 10 years ago, I started out as a freelancer under DLM designs. And it’s just my initials. It’s very common in the design industry when you’re starting out, just use something basic as your name. And so that was what I was doing. And then over time, I just realized that I’m more than just my name. I can create a completely different platform away from my name and still be very intact and still provide the things that I wanted to provide to our clientele. So I kind of tugged at my noggin for a little bit about you know what could be it and I am very obsessed with energy and the idea of flame and igniting things and so it came all together with the word octane and if you are super techie person listening to this, you would know that what color octane is when it’s actually set on fire. Those are my branding colors. So it’s really interconnected.
This idea of seeing things when they’re ignited and putting the right elements in place to ignite something bigger.-Danielle Meadows-Stinnett of Octane Designs
Karen Swyszcz 5:41
Oh, I love it. Businesses and startups. We know that in this day and age we need to do marketing. It’s such a competitive world out there. It’s such a noisy world and it’s so important more than ever to get yourself seen. What would you say are some common marketing mistakes that you see?
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 6:00
I think common ones, most of all would have to be one not knowing what you’re doing. Obviously, that’s I think that’s the biggest one we see a lot of startups when they get started, they’re kind of all over the place. And they kind of have a lack of internal systems and processes. And that’s, again, very common in startup businesses that are, you know, two or three years old. Feeling the need to do it all yourself, I feel like is a huge one. Because in a lot of ways, we feel like we’re doing it all ourselves, especially for tech startups. When we talk about people of colour, specifically, diversity in the tech industry actually did some research recently from the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, and they specifically talk about how people of colour make up roughly one third as employees in the tech industry. 1% of those are actually executive leads in the tech industry. That’s astonishing to me. Because one, I’m surrounded by lots and lots of diversity in the tech industry, but I realized that that’s only a remote part of the bigger system here. And so when we talk about mistakes that people often make, it’s not understanding the scalable part of the business, not realizing that knowing when to look up, knowing when to get out of your fishbowl, how to refresh, how to pivot. But there’s some basic small things that I feel like a lot of startups tend to make in realizing they need to go big and hard, straight out of the gate.
Karen Swyszcz 7:26
But when they’re first starting out, say for example, they don’t necessarily have the budget to outsource. Are there certain things they can DIY when it comes to marketing?
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 7:35
Absolutely. We are huge advocates of non-traditional education at Octane. And I really strive hard for people to learn from one another learn from what worked for one person and didn’t work for another and apply that to yourself. There’s so many different ways that you can do that. We host workshops, we have ebooks. There’s so much different types of resources that people can obtain now in this age, and time in comparison to a decade ago when it wasn’t as common to really level up your business.
Karen Swyszcz 8:06
Yeah, actually, that is one of the questions I have talking about, you know, non-traditional education versus traditional education. I remember back in the day when I was in university, was quite a while ago, and I remember taking online courses, but they more referred to them as distance education. And it felt at that time, online courses were only something that colleges and universities offered and now we’re seeing so many people having like online workshops, and then there’s platforms such as like Skillshare, Udemy, LinkedIn Learning, Coursera, etc. Do you see this becoming even like more of a trend now people who have the skills to share creating online courses and then people who are hungry or see the need to learn certain skills to take these courses?
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 8:59
Absolutely. I feel like in a lot of ways, we’re actually starting to be more and more like other well supported communities and countries who have done the same very well on their own decades before us. When you look at Europe when you look at other countries like Italy and Spain, you look at their education, how they’re growing, a lot of it is through internships and externships, which is, again, gaining experience by doing things on site, or working hand in hand and more in a digital way. So I feel like America is kind of just now getting to that point, we’re like, oh, we can do that. Now. We’ve put so much emphasis on a formal education that we forget that some of the most innate experiences that we have in education is literally just doing the work. So I definitely feel online courses are definitely going to be the next level of education and we don’t necessarily require a formal or four-year degree education.
Karen Swyszcz 9:52
And for me, personally, I am actually not even using my degree. So I have a degree in science. I always joke to people that it’s a very expensive piece of art that is in my parents’ living room and everything that I’ve been doing now has the majority of it has been through YouTubing asking around in Facebook groups, Googling, just asking people questions. If you’re really want to learn something, you will make the effort to find the means to do so. And yeah, because of the internet and social media I believe that really you can learn pretty much anything.
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 10:31
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I’ve levelled up my business I’ve been able to level up my parenting skills, my cosplay abilities like, all this has come from some level of internet connection or some sort of group that I’ve been a part of. So I just feel like it has the beauty of technology as it does help foster communities but the other part of that is actually using what you have learned and actually applying that.
Karen Swyszcz 10:58
Yeah, and I think also people need to realize that like they have their own skillset like and there’s so many things that can be taught people might think like, Oh, I don’t have like skills in say, for example, like digital marketing, but if they and I’m pretty sure like I would say like if someone took an inventory of their skills or strengths and weaknesses, they could probably find something to teach like, I mean, there are even courses on like, say mindset and productivity, which are a couple of like huge topics among entrepreneurs.
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 11:31
Absolutely. How to budget your time wisely. I mean, those are things that I have definitely searched for and used and that’s been to my benefit.
Karen Swyszcz 11:39
So you also create online courses on Skillshare. So for people who are interested in creating online courses, do you have tips on how to create an effective online course?
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 11:51
Definitely, um, create a system that works for you. That was something that I had to learn both the easy way and the hard way. I was seeing how other people were doing it on their own. But really, it really comes down to what’s comfortable for you if you’re not a person that is studious, don’t make this project studious. If you’re more laid back and you just want to have a conversation, set it up so that it is more of a conversation. And being true to yourself was really something that I wanted to come across in a lot of the online and non-traditional pieces that we put out.
We don’t necessarily want to make it feel like you’re in a studious position, we want to make it more of a casual conversation between people who just want to share information. And so that’s really what a lot of my base Skillshare classes, as well as online like Facebook group classes and things, entail on a Skillshare class, we’re talking about scaling to brand your work specifically. So the next one that I’m going to be putting out talks about building a brand guide for your clients or for yourself, how to take a design and create a full-scale branding project from that one design. When again, you can follow Octane Designs for release dates and info on that specific information. But when we talk about breaking down the class. It literally is 1.This is what we’re talking about. 2. Break down those top three things that we’re going to be talking about. And then wrapping that up in a practical way, giving them a homework assignment, allowing them to interact with each other. I think that’s a huge part of the online platform. That’s really what it’s all about is being able to interact with each other as you’re growing, and then to being able to show off your work (laughs).
Karen Swyszcz 13:27
Yeah, I’ve noticed a lot of courses do that where the students they can ask questions to each other online. And I think that’s really great, like because it does help build the community and then also answer questions that other people might have. It’s funny, I’m talking about Skillshare because I do have one class up and I know I’ve been saying this for the past year and a bit that I will do another one but I just haven’t gotten around to it. Or actually, I guess a better way of putting it is that I haven’t made it a priority. And I guess like for me, I’m more of like audio, audio person. Video, not so much. It’s a bit of a stretch for me.
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 14:03
I’m the same. And that really got me out of my comfort zone actually doing more online courses. I am not a big fancy girl makeup and doing all the things. I’m talking all the talk. I’m really just kind of plain Jane. And I’m straightforward. And hopefully, that comes off well to most people taking the courses I believe it does. But I’m also in a place to where when I’m optimistic, myself, other things like that does not bother me because I’m doing what I feel is compelling me to keep going.
Karen Swyszcz 14:32
So in your bio, I mentioned that you designed designer sneakers and that sounds really cool, would you be able to share the experience with us?
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 14:41
Okay, yeah, sure. So I had this really unique experience a while back to work with some local brands on some fashion t-shirts and some fashion shoes and they kind of went up a level. When one of my good friends that I’ve worked with on a different project called The Mix Magazine, she’s a sneaker sneak freak and she herself is very kind of higher up the ranks and working with Warner Brothers. And somehow, someway she was able to connect, Reebok and Shaquille O’Neal and working with Shaq Attacks. And she needed a designer to help get the design across. And I was able to collab with them and make that happen. And so that was a pretty unique experience for me because it’s not something that I normally do on a regular basis. But it was a unique project that really taught me a lot.
Karen Swyszcz 15:27
With respect to the things that you design versus designing sneakers, did you find it to be more challenging or it was easy to adapt?
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 15:35
It is a little bit more challenging because there’s more voices to include. I feel like obviously, the smaller the circle, the easier it is to kind of boom, boom, get things done. When you have more voices at the table, you have to kind of equate for every little thing in that with something to that I had to learn to to do on a better basis.
Karen Swyszcz 15:54
So I wanted to tie back earlier on in the conversation you touched about diversity in tech. And we know that’s such a huge topic these days. So in your own words, if you could describe what does diversity in tech mean to you?
It’s representation really. When we talk about diversity and breaking that down, it’s just literally a representation of voices.Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 16:10
And that is something that I feel like obviously is lacking specifically in the tech industry. But even more so having that type of diversity represented in places where there’s not as much diversity and being that type of game-changer, not a lot of people who are diverse want to be that type of person who wants to be out there in that way. And I feel like it’s super important that we start having those conversations amongst each other and specifically within the diverse community, but then also representing all those voices as much as possible as loudly as we can so that other people realize they’re not the only one in the room.
Karen Swyszcz 16:54
Yeah, I completely agree with you and in your opinion, like why do you think it has taken quite some time? Like there is progress, but I personally feel like it’s kind of been like slow gradual progress.
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 17:06
I completely agree. One of the things, one of the bullet points I had in my head was how can we change that? How can we change that 1% of executive leaders in the tech industry being people of colour? How can we make that three, how can we make that 5%? And I kind of broke it down into a couple of different things, one exposure to capital investment, there’s just not enough opportunity. I feel like, over the years, there’s more now than there ever has been, but exposure to capital investment for people of colour, I think is extremely crucial to have. And I think that kind of helps make or break a lot of startups in the first two years of business. So that’s one and then two, being able to seek resources to balance stronger business development skills. Again, most of us who are starting up, we’re only good at that one thing, right? Most of us who are starting out like video game companies and coding companies, you know, we’re just good coders and we just had this ability to create a business. We have to realize to when we’re starting a business, we’re no longer just that coder anymore. Now we’re the coder and the Secretary and the HR and all the research that goes into that. So understanding and seeking those resources to better balance the skills that you don’t have. I feel it’s an incredibly important skill to learn and to grow over time and scaling your business.
Karen Swyszcz 18:22
I don’t know about you, but do you happen to take note say when you go to events, conferences, and when you listen, watch people speak on the panel. Do you take note if there is diversity represented?
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 18:35
Absolutely. I do.
Karen Swyszcz 18:36
I thought it was like the only one or one of the few people but then I started to have more conversations with them. It’s strange, I guess you kind of just do like a quick mental inventory as you like, okay, there’s like this many so and so this many sounds like it just I don’t know. It’s just one of the like, it’s always been automatic for me (laughs).
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 18:51
Absolutely. And I feel like that’s totally innate to people of colour period.
We always want to see ourselves in other places. When we see people being successful, we want to envision ourselves being successful. And the best way for us to see that is to see other people like us do it. So I feel like it’s extremely important to have that representation onstage, in the crowds, in the vendor booths or on the markets. It’s extremely important for us to see that so that we can see it can be done, it is possible we can break those barriers.-Danielle Meadows-Stinnett
Karen Swyszcz 19:14
Mm-hmm. And then with not just diversity in tech, we need it pretty much in every industry because like the population itself is diverse. And then like having a diverse workforce, a diverse community, it helps to provide different ideas, experience and insight.
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 19:37
Absolutely. Again, going back to what diversity is. What is that? It’s the accumulation of different voices. And when we have more different voices at the table, we’re allowing more opportunities for change. When we’re not allowing other voices to be seen or heard at the table. We’re only getting one monotonous voice and echo chambers are real.
Karen Swyszcz 19:58
Even just thinking with respect to like owning a business, I had this weird idea, I guess the stereotypical idea that okay, it’s mainly men who are in business or you have to be very extroverted and have charisma and you know, be this attention seeker, but then after reading a lot more and then reading more profiles of leader, a lot of them are actually introverts and I myself, like I consider myself to be a huge introvert and then reading that has, you know, given me like comfort and made me realize, like, yeah, I can be a leader even though I’m an introvert and really, that’s not even like, I shouldn’t even consider it to be a hindrance.
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 20:33
Absolutely, I too, am an introvert. I consider myself an introvert. My husband, my kids probably will tell me no, you’re not but
Karen Swyszcz 20:40
I think everybody does. You know, when you say something like no, you’re not like Yes, I am. Alright, go ahead, continue, please.
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 20:47
Oh, no, you’re fine. I have a lot of moments where I am, you know, high energy when I’m in front of clientele or businesses or having an event and then for the next week to two weeks I will be a slow recluse in my home in my PJs binging Netflix shows things along those lines while crafting. So I have a good balance of right now I have a good balance of better understanding when to be forward, but then also to remember to refresh myself inward and that helps kind of balance the ebb and flow of what’s required of me both as a mom as a professional and as a person.
Karen Swyszcz 21:23
Yeah, I’m the same way like I’ll do the events and like get all the energy, okay, okay. But yeah, after that, say a few hours or that day or half-day, I’m like, Okay, I’m good (laughs). Like, maybe in a few weeks that I could go back to it. It’s just funny, I guess people who aren’t as introverted often like my mom or like other people ask because I spent most of my time at home working for home and they’ll say like, aren’t you like lonely? Do you feel like are you okay? I’m like, No, actually, I really love being alone because there is a difference between being lonely and being alone.
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 21:58
Karen Swyszcz 22:00
Yeah, I just think like if I was to be on a deserted island, I think I’d be okay. As long as I had like Wi-Fi and a few books, then I’d be good.
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 22:09
Just leave me with wifi, I’ll figure everything else out.
Karen Swyszcz 22:12
So do you think there would be more advances in tech to come up with solutions and ways to apply more diversity?
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 22:19
Absolutely. I already see a lot of more intentional spaces. And we look at amazing conventions like Afro Tech, and we look at amazing communities that are being built specifically around people of colour. And we talk about a similar group that we’re a part of The Women of Colour Podcasters, bringing tons of people together in one virtual space and we’re hearing voices and we’re sharing feedback. Those are intentional ways that we can start creating a stronger voice for ourselves and then amplifying that with other people outside the circles can hear and see us.
Karen Swyszcz 22:54
Mm-hmm. I was just even thinking of a small example emojis like now they have different skin tones if you want to choose like a high five and thumbs up and sometimes it’s like oh, I wanted to use like all the skin tones to represent everyone (laughs).
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 23:08
I do that. I do that often. Sometimes my social media posts instead of just doing like a yellow thumb, I’ll do you know white, a medium blend and then a really dark thumb because I want to include as many people as possible.
Karen Swyszcz 23:18
Yeah, for sure. And this is just more of like a side note, but I remember when I was younger with makeup there were some popular brands that there wasn’t a shade that was like meant for me it was kind of like either all really really light or really, really dark and not that too many in the middle. So I found it took me a while to find like the few brands that actually had a shade that best fit me and I guess like maybe at that time, you know, they weren’t really aware but like I’ve noticed now there are more makeup brands they have a wide array of shades for people of different colour.
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 23:52
Absolutely. And that again comes to attest to what power of influence and affluence is in our community. Again, you will see ourselves in the products that we use, being able to see ourselves and the clothes that we wear or being able to see ourselves in the advertisements or the leaders in the industry specifically. So I think it’s super important representation totally matters (laughs).
Karen Swyszcz 24:13
Yeah, definitely. Even though we’ve been going on about, like diversity in tech and tech, I wanted to chat about something more low tech such as books. So what are some books would you say that you have changed your life or changed your way of thinking?
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 24:28
Oh, wow. Okay. So because I also host a podcast, I hear a lot of tools and resources that are shared with me specifically on stories. So stories kind of been my pivot in some areas in regards to digital marketing, because that is a big part of what I do is telling other people’s story. So some resources recently that was kind of provided to me was I can’t think of his last name. His first name is Karl. Let me go get it right now while I’m talking to you but that was a really big one and actually did some homework on him specifically looking at some of his earlier books, just kind of better understanding what is required of that. Hold on one second, I’ll pull it up. I was so surprised because I was like, this is just not my normal thing. But I love story enough. And this was one of the early founders of developing good story. And so that really triggered a lot of things for me, and I really wanted to kind of share that with people. Here we go. It is Patrick Jerry was the one that brought this up to me, Joseph Campbell. Whoo, there you go. He is a world-renowned mythologist and he has a book called The Hero with 1000 Faces And I
Karen Swyszcz 25:38
Sorry, could you repeat that The Hero with 1000 Faces?
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 25:41
Correct. That is right. The Hero with 1000 Faces, again made from Joseph Campbell, who’s a world-renowned mythologist and it was super important for me to better understand story by starting to read a lot of his work specifically. So it’s just really epic. The first time you read it, I’ve been told several times You’re going to be like what? But the more you start reading it and maybe kind of reframing your brain a little bit, the more it starts to make deeper sense to you and I, I’m in that place right now where I’m just kind of rediscovering really crucial parts of his words are talking about developing a story what that means psychologically to a person.
Karen Swyszcz 26:21
Yeah, it’s such a huge part of digital marketing now, like sales and marketing in general, because before it was more of a one-way conversation like I just think of back of two people who go door to door and they just kind of try and sell you something right. Whereas now as you see, there’s always like a story behind it. And I feel when you have a story behind your service or your product, it just makes it so much more compelling.
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 26:46
Absolutely. I completely agree. It’s actually a part of some of the marketing tips or importance of marketing that I talk about. Often, you know, marketing is essential to make or break your business but it is not required for you to come out guns blazing. It’s important that people instantly connect to you whether by service or by story, even if they’re not interested in you. But the fact that you’re telling your story letting people know that you’re putting yourself out there is a connection magnet.
Karen Swyszcz 27:10
Okay, so before we close off the conversation, I’d like to ask you, what advice would you give to your younger self?
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 27:18
Oh man, be probably be patient. That was something I was I was very impatient. I’m still kind of impatient. But I think kids kind of helped mellow me down a little bit. I was incredibly impatient as a young person, and I just wanted everything to happen overnight, or happen in a very short amount of time. And what I had to realize was that in a lot of ways, in order to develop something, you need to take the time to develop it. And that means that it may take a week, you may take a month, it may take a year to get where you need to go, but you’ll get there again, kind of the whole mysterious, you know, the part of it the importance of the journey is not necessarily the destination but it’s you know, The journey of getting there and that’s really what I wish I could tell my younger self was enjoy the journey instead of focusing so much on getting to the end of the race.
Karen Swyszcz 28:08
Me too. I’m an impatient person. Like, I can’t help it. I yeah, it’s almost like I want everything done now or I wanted done yesterday. Yeah, but I definitely agree with you to focus on the journey. And I guess maybe not even to really be so hellbent. I’m like, Oh, this needs to be done right away. But yeah, it’s the progress, like the progress makes such a huge difference versus saying, okay, was I in a different place than where I started, say, a year ago, or even like six months ago, and if there was progress, and I’m pretty satisfied with that.
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 28:38
Absolutely. And that can be measured in so many different ways. Again, one of the ways that I kind of measure that success is you know, one being yourself. I encourage people all the time my clientele, anyone listening earshot range of me knows that I’m a huge advocate of being yourself. Because if you don’t believe in yourself that no one else will either. Yes, so true. Totally understanding that and then to learning when to pivot, because you’re not going to get it right all the time, you’re going to fail. Actually, failure is great because you’re learning from what is working and what is not working. So if you’re understanding that you have to learn to pivot, that is something huge that will help you later on as you grow and realize what you do want and what you don’t want. And then also learning to keep it moving because that’s a big part of progress is you are moving all the time.
Karen Swyszcz 29:26
So if people wanted to get in touch with you online, where could they find you?
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 29:31
Gosh, Octane Designs. That is true across the board. That’s Instagram octane designs, Twitter octanedesigns, Pinterest, octanedesigns, and Facebook at octane designs. So pretty simple (laughs).
Karen Swyszcz 29:45
Very important with branding to having the same name if possible across the board.
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 29:51
Yes, super important. And of course, you can always check out my blog, the podcast at lexoctane.com.
Karen Swyszcz 29:58
Great. Thank you so much again for chatting with today was a lot of fun.
Danielle Meadows-Stinnett 30:02
Yes, thank you, Karen. I’m so excited.
Karen Swyszcz 30:04
All right. Thanks, everyone for tuning in and stay tuned for more episodes Ciao for now.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai