I used to play video games all the time when I was a kid. I also enjoyed watching over kids play as well and sometimes even preferred to watch them play versus playing myself. It wasn’t until a few years ago, when I attended ComicCon in Toronto, that I learned how popular watching competitive gaming was.
Karen Swyszcz 0:00
I’m Karen Swyszcz, and you’re listening to The Bacon Bits ‘n’ Bytes Podcast. This is the podcast where a bit of business and a byte of technology come together.
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of The Bacon Bits ‘n ‘ Bytes Podcast. I’m super excited today to have Arwina Mogul on the show. She is an award-winning entrepreneur that has been featured in CBC, Flare and Polygon. Arwina is the CEO of beam.gg, a Canadian tech startup that’s looking to build software for the Esports and gaming industries. Prior to beam.gg Arwina worked as a consultant for the world’s first Esports theme park had her first Esports startup acquired and worked for the Region of Peel for over five years. Welcome to the show.
Arwina Mogul 1:01
Hi, Karen. I’m so excited to be here. It’s been a long time coming and I can’t wait.
Karen Swyszcz 1:08
I know I’m really excited to have you on the show. I have so many questions. But let’s first get started with your childhood. Were you always into video games? And what were some of your favorite video games as a kid?
Arwina Mogul 1:20
Yeah, so I was always into video games, unfortunately to my parents. So some of the favorite games that I had played during my childhood would be you know, the typical Gameboy Pokemon series. I also really like Red Alert, which is the real time strategy game. And then also, things like Gun Bound and RPG so like Ragnarok like those are basically I delved into a lot of different games when I was a kid.
Karen Swyszcz 1:48
Well, this kind of dates me because the Game Boy games I liked, I think it was when Gameboy first came out. So I remember playing like Tetris and then Kirby’s Dreamland. And then with respect to Nintendo, it was, I think the first system that came out where you had like blow into the cartridge. And I remember like Duck Hunt. And like the Power Pad like jumping up and down at my cousin’s house, and then even the fighting games, which is a Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat. So you did a lot of playing video games. Did you also watch other people play video games as a kid?
Arwina Mogul 2:21
I did, but it was not as what you think it would be today. Back when I was a kid I used to watch you know, other family members and relatives play at our house or at their house when I’m visiting. But I also when I was in high school, I did go to internet cafes and watched other people play video games, mostly because, you know, I wanted to learn how they were able to, you know, become like a legendary status in in that specific game that they’re playing. And also, it was really good seeing them play because I saw how they were playing based on the placements of their fingers on the keyboard.
Karen Swyszcz 3:02
That’s really interesting. Like you actually studied how they played video games because I think I just watched it just for the sake of like entertainment to see all like the cool moves that they did (laughs).
Arwina Mogul 3:14
(laughs) Yeah, I wanted to you know, up my game as well. So I definitely asked a lot of questions as well like, hey, how were you able to do this? What key did you press? Or what’s the seconds or minutes that’s required to execute a certain type of move?
Karen Swyszcz 3:30
Wow, that’s really cool. Because you know, with the fighting games in the Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, I know there are a series of key combinations, but I never bothered to learn them. I just basically would press as many buttons as I could, as fast as I could and then kind of hope for the best.
Arwina Mogul 3:49
Yeah, usually, I mean, games are for fun, right? It’s for entertainment. So you know, not everyone needs to learn all the combos. Like if you’re having fun pressing and smashing the buttons, I mean, that’s cool.
Karen Swyszcz 4:02
So I took a look at your LinkedIn profile. And then prior to being part of the esports startup world, you were a social worker. So what made you decide to, I guess, have it become a side hustle? And then also what made you decide to launch your first Esports startup, Daily Esports?
Arwina Mogul 4:21
Yeah, so when I was in school, I took up social sciences. And the reason why I did that is because that is one of my passions, or that is my core passion. That’s the principle that I’ve kind of built my life upon. And that’s to help people as a new immigrant, as a new Filipino immigrant into Canada. I was thinking Huh, how do I help people and the first thing that was the most obvious was, you know, become a social worker and specialize in the immigrant and refugee settlement stream. So that is what I did in school and as soon as I graduated, I took a job with The Region of Peel. A week later, I did get an offer for an interview with the City of Toronto, but I was living in Peel at the time. So it just made more sense to go with the Region of Peel offer. So that’s when that was in 2009. And then I’ve been there and then I, I was working on also my startup Daily Esports during my time at Peel, so it was my side hustle, as you can call it. During my caseworker, social worker days there.
Karen Swyszcz 5:35
Mm hmm. And then it was acquired by another company. And was that the end goal for Daily Esports?
Arwina Mogul 5:44
Yes, because my passion was really tech and business. Daily Esports was focused on a lot of content and media. It wasn’t something that I was looking to build and grow over the years. I wanted to, you know, expand the different experiences and skills that I had. And I did that through Daily Esports and when the opportunity to, you know, fly overseas and work on a theme park was, you know, something that I didn’t want to pass on. So I did that right after.
Karen Swyszcz 6:19
Yeah, that actually brings me to the next question in that you were a consultant for that first Esports theme park. And it just, it just blows my mind to think that somebody would come up with that kind of idea. Because you know, when we think of theme parks, we have like our local one Canada’s Wonderland and then there’s like Disney World and Disneyland. What is an Esports theme park? How would you describe it?
Arwina Mogul 6:44
So, an Esports theme park does have a couple of different offerings. Some of them are a space for people to play video games, a space for people to watch people play video games. A space for people to create content of people playing video games. There’s space for retail for companies to sell their products to people who play video games or their families or their friends. There’s also you know, obviously F & B, people need to be energized and should be able to, you know, buy food and drinks close by.
Other parts of it could be experiential type of activities, like racing, escape rooms, you know, axe throwing to board games, another part of it could be arcades, so people playing old school type of arcades, so it gives that nostalgic feeling to it. It could also be an offering where there’s a museum of different types of video games that’s been done in the past, published or produced in the past could be in there as well. So it’s a mixed bag because you can also have co-working spaces there as well.
Karen Swyszcz 7:57
Oh, that’s really interesting.
Arwina Mogul 7:59
Yeah.
Karen Swyszcz 8:00
So with respect to beam.gg, when you were first starting that, like because you already had experience building a startup Daily Esports, what did you find the process much more seamless? Or do you still feel you encountered a lot of obstacles when you first started a few years ago?
Arwina Mogul 8:19
I mean, it did make the process a bit more streamlined. But I would say only by 5%. So nothing like significant, where, you know, I started this whole company in the same industry and like, I found success much quicker, definitely not like that. It just helped with, you know, being in tune with a space that helped a lot. So it wasn’t as if I was speaking to people in the industry with the new product, and they knew that I had, you know, knowledge and domain expertise in the industry versus if I didn’t, then it would be like a different conversation. But yeah, like, I would say, only really helped by 5% you know, having the other startup just because it didn’t focus on the same thing, even though it’s in the same industry,
Karen Swyszcz 9:09
Right. So you still felt like you were kind of starting all over again, but not I guess completely from ground zero.
Arwina Mogul 9:16
Yeah.
Karen Swyszcz 9:17
So I remember attending like Fan Expo in Toronto a few years ago. I remember that they had a live Esports competition, and I was just blown away by how many people were in attendance. Why do you think competitive gaming is so popular? And you know, what, what are some factors that have led to it becoming a billion-dollar industry?
Arwina Mogul 9:37
I believe the number one factor is accessibility. So anyone from any race, any age, any city, any weather, can participate in Esports in some sort of way. Because it is digital. And because most of the content is free. So if you wanted let’s just say if you wanted to watch the NBA you usually need, do need cable, subscription pay per view, you have to go to either a bar, or to the actual game itself to watch it. For Esports it’s free. So it’s free on Twitch or it’s free on YouTube or it’s free on Mixer. And it just less barriers for people to cross over.
However, if you do want to attend an Esports, a major Esports tournament, you know, in-person then that does cost some money. But otherwise you can watch it for free and HD online. And the fact that you know, once you see someone make a move, it will take you seconds to try and do that move in game. You could just open up your game and see if it works for you. So accessibility is the number one thing and just the connectivity with a lot of the different players. You know, um, you know, they don’t see what you look like who you are but you have a goal.
When you load into a game, you have this goal, you have this team that you need to work with for that game to reach this specific goal so that you can win. And that is one of the quickest ways to build camaraderie and trust between people. And I think there’s no better way of doing that except for you know, playing a video game.
Karen Swyszcz 11:25
So how does one get into competitive gaming? If they said they just make that decision? Okay, I’m, you know, I want to take it to the next level from casual gaming to, to taking it more seriously.
Arwina Mogul 11:38
Yeah. (laughs). That’s exactly what you do. So you’re playing a video game, you think that you know, you can make it big and you can play really well. You’re very skilled. And you know, you’re not you’re better than all of your friends. You’re better than everyone that you meet in public games. Now the next thing is you reach out to the teams and you reach out to coaches or managers and tell them that, hey, I want to try out for your team. And that’s really in games, there’s calibration. So let’s just say that I’m a professional player. And you Karen, you started to play this game and you got really good at it. So you rose up the ranks. And in games, there’s calibration, like I said, where you are matched with someone of a similar skill, because then gains would not be fun if you match with someone who is much lower in skill level than you. So you do get matched with similarly skilled level players. So once you both get into a game, for example, I’m a pro player and you’re this rising star, but you’re unknown. Like nobody knows you. And we get into a game I could absolutely see how you play, and then be impressed with it and ask you Hey, are you in a team, and vice versa, you could see my name. And it could be very obvious that I’m a pro player because of like a game name or whatsoever a game tag. And you can ask me to, you know, to see if like, you can try out for my team.
There’s communities, semi-professional communities, professional communities for Esports players, where they can join tryouts. They can compete with other high skilled players. And then the coaches or the managers or the team owners determine if they want to get you inside the team. So it’s the accessibility like I said, is very, very, very good in Esports. Almost anyone can be a pro player, as long as you’re very high skilled.
Karen Swyszcz 13:43
Oh, cool. So prior to attending your launch party, I had no idea that there were several other people behind the scenes as you had mentioned, managers, coaches, team owners. It is like a professional sport like it is a professional sports league. So where would you find like managers, coaches, team owners? Again, it’s like reaching out to people in those communities?
Arwina Mogul 14:06
Yeah. So there’s a lot. social media. Twitter is the best platform for gamers, a lot of gamers are on it, both casual to pro and teams as well. Reddit is another way because they also do have sometimes they do have amateur type of events as well. And that’s kind of how you start. So playing a video game and matching up and connecting and getting matched with other players. That’s great. But if you want to take your skill to the next level, then you want to start to get into private matches. Private matches are taken more seriously. So for example, let’s say Dota 2 and I think it’s better to kind of explain it this way. So Dota 2 is a video game. It’s a massively online battle arena. And it’s a five V five so five players versus another five players. You get matched into the game and you win points. And with points, you get points based on you know how you win and how skilled the other opponent is. With these points, it gets you trophies. So it’s kind of like a nice way to kind of humble brag to people that, hey, you have a high trophy, so you’re a high school player, but that’s not really how you can become pro directly. So another way would be, you start going on Reddit or Discord or Twitter and looking for amateur events, you’ll quickly realize that you’re a very skilled player, if you’re able to win the tournaments and you know, not giving any wins to your opponents. And then you move up to, you know, Semi-Pro events and then you start getting interest from tier four, tier three teams and then you’ll also quickly realize how well you play in that type of scene and in that type of level. And then you just keep on going up, up the way to tier-one type of team.
You can also grind. Grinding in Esports is kind of or gaming is like where you keep on playing until you get a lot of points and you’re the number one player in the world for this game. So you could do that as well. And when you do that, of course, everyone’s eyes are gonna be on you. And you’re gonna be messaged by coaches, by recruiters, etc. to play for them.
Karen Swyszcz 16:28
How often would you say a professional gamer on average practices?
Arwina Mogul 16:34
They do practice a lot. That is one of the issues in Esports where they do practice for a very long time. You know, in sports, when you practice you can’t really practice for 16 hours straight. Your body just won’t allow it right because there’s physical hindrances and you can’t do that every day for like months at a time but Esports players do. They practice anywhere from 12 to 16 hour days, every single day, and they do that for a month, and sometimes when there’s a big tournament coming up, what they do is they practice, you know, 16 hour days every single day up until the tournament. So that’s kind of like how the player schedule looks like.
Karen Swyszcz 17:16
Wow, that’s dedication to spend that much time.
Arwina Mogul 17:19
Oh yeah.
Karen Swyszcz 17:20
Practicing for a tournament. What are some popular misconceptions people have about Esports and for me again, before I knew about the industry, I just assumed it was more of an isolated hobby? And then the only I don’t even know if this could be considered an Esport or a gaming type game. I remember some of my friends playing World of Warcraft back in the day, but I guess
Arwina Mogul 17:42
I played that too.
Karen Swyszcz 17:43
Oh, (laughs) I never played I just heard of it. They called it WOW. I know the games that are being played Call of Duty and Fortnite, League of Legends. And again, just going back to my question, what do you think are some of the popular misconceptions and like, why do you think people have these misconceptions?
Arwina Mogul 17:57
Misconceptions about what in particular?
Karen Swyszcz 18:00
Just about like Esports, I guess in general, like, perhaps maybe not seeing it as a legitimate type of sport?
Arwina Mogul 18:08
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think this has been an ongoing discussion. And I do completely understand actually from both sides of the argument, you know, from sports and also from Esports. Personally, in my own personal opinion, I think Esports should be more modelled towards entertainment, like music and movies.
For sports, it’s completely different. I think that competitiveness is the reason why people called it Esports. But apart from the competitiveness, from people playing video games, to people watching it and all of that it’s very similar and even the content produced and rights and licenses. It’s very much more similar to movies and music. And I say this because, for example, if you filmed yourself playing basketball, you don’t necessarily have to pay the inventor of basketball royalties, right? But if you filmed yourself playing League of Legends or Fortnite and you televised it on cable TVs on Time Square and all of that, you’re gonna have a pretty big problem in your hands because the content that you’re showing off is owned by the publisher. So that’s the kind of like the main difference between the two. And I think that’s a very big misconception for a lot of people.
Another one is that these are just basement dwellers, fat people who are playing video games, etc, etc, should not be included in Olympics or, you know, there’s a lot of discussions around that. And I think it’s because when Esports started to get a lot of mainstream attention, people were quick to put a lot of different labels on it. And I think that kind of that is the stem have the end root of the problem.
But I think now there’s been progress. I do think that there’s been progress and people understanding Esports from both sides of the fence, traditional sports professionals, traditional media professionals now understand the industry more. And then the gamers, you know, the hardcore passionate gamers on the other side, are also understanding where you know, traditional sports and media people are coming from. Because when we think about it, the average Esports enthusiast, the Esports fan spends like six to $7 a year on eSports, while an NFL fan spends 60 to $70. And that’s only for one sport. So the industry itself still has a very long way to go.
But I think just knowing and learning more about the industry and not being quick to judge or not being quick to put labels I think will go a long way. Because that’s mostly where all the misconceptions came from.
Karen Swyszcz 21:01
Yeah, for sure education definitely makes a difference. Prior to the interview, I was reading an article on CCN.com that mentioned a greater Southeast Asia is projecting a huge amount of growth in the Esports market in China, Japan, Korea, and the US are considered to be the dominant players. So do you foresee Canada making a name for themselves in this industry in the near future?
Arwina Mogul 21:11
So it’s happening, it’s happening in Canada. And there’s a lot more projects that’s going on behind the scenes that I can’t really talk about, and very big major projects as well. So I would really call on brands, people, companies who want to, you know, explore the industry and maybe see if it makes sense for them to sell or promote or to provide their services and products to the industry. I think it’s a worthwhile effort for them for any company actually.
Karen Swyszcz 21:59
I’m just curious to know There are several Esports teams out there in Toronto. Do you have a favorite Esports team? You know, is there one that you like you cheer for? You’re a big fan of?
Arwina Mogul 22:11
I’m not gonna say it. (laughs)
I love all the teams. And if I pick one team, I think my head’s gonna be on the chopping block, because we’re friends. You know, I’m friends with all of the people here. So I don’t want to play favorites, but they’re all doing a really phenomenal amount of work of effort of time into the Toronto Esports scene. So I’m really glad that we have all of those things happening in our city.
Karen Swyszcz 22:42
Okay, maybe you can answer this question. Do you have a favorite Esports game? Like is it Fortnite?League of Legends? Dota?
Arwina Mogul 22:50
So I played all the games, but I do have to say that my favorite video game is Dota. Not because the other games are lesser in terms of entertainment. They’re all very very fun games. So I played Starcraft I played WOW. I played Fortnite, Apex Legends. The thing is I like Dota 2 because it’s where I found my fiance.
Yes. So we met through Dota 2. The reason why I also loved it is because it really challenges me. It’s always different. I don’t play it often, or as much as I want to play Dota 2, but I do play it once in a while. And when I do, there’s always new things to learn. It’s a very difficult game to learn and teamwork is amazing and the game and I do have a lot of friends that play it. So naturally, I would enjoy playing Dota 2 more than the other games because then I know that people like some of the people that I play with, I’ve known them for 5-10 years. So it just makes the experience even better.
Karen Swyszcz 23:13
Oh, cool.
Awesome. I wanted to shift back to beam.gg itself and in one sentence, it could be described as helping brands and organizations enter and thrive in Esports. And I was looking on the sites and it showed that you’ve worked with some organizations such as, like York University, and McCarthy Tetrault and those are the types of organizations, I guess, they don’t naturally come to mind with respect to Esports. So I’m just curious to know, and I’m sure a lot of the listeners are curious to know, how does Esports like get incorporated in those types of brands?
Arwina Mogul 24:28
So there’s a lot of different ways, I think, a lot of people and it’s a very big misconception as well, where they think, okay, you’re an Esports company you’re only going to serve gaming companies, or like, not even gaming, but only Esports companies like teams. And I think you know, without sharing, of course, our secret sauce and how we built our business and our business model.
I think what a lot of people have to do is think outside the box. When you think about Esports it’s competitive gaming. It’s gamifying the Esports experience, and it appeals to millennials. It appeals to younger people who have been historically very evasive to traditional ads, and to traditional media. So if you’re able to outreach or serve clients who want to outreach to those types of customer groups, then I think you should definitely look into Esports and seeing what kind of products and services exist, how you can complement them. And if you see that there’s a gap in an offering, then it’s a great way to expand your business or to create a new business.
Karen Swyszcz 25:43
So as a female CEO in a male-dominated industry, such as Esports, what has that experience been like? And do you foresee more women entering the space in the future?
Arwina Mogul 25:53
I definitely hope so. And it’s one of my goals and my values to do that to get more women in leadership positions. One of the very big misconceptions which gets me riled up, sometimes, is when people tell me that, hey, there’s not enough women, and to me that just seems like you’ve not done your homework. There’s more people. There’s more women that play mobile games than men.
Karen Swyszcz 25:53
Oh, interesting.
Arwina Mogul 25:53
This is a fact. Also, I mean, if you look at it, you know, there’s more women in the world than men as well, like statistics wise. And there’s a lot of women in Esports and in gaming who work or who are passionate about the space or who want to enter this space. The unfortunate thing is most key decision-makers are all male. So when that happens, when you see that, if you’re a woman, if you don’t see someone in a leadership position, how were you able to get inspired and motivate yourself to do the same thing? You can’t be what you can’t see.
Karen Swyszcz 26:53
So I like that that’s a good one.
Arwina Mogul 26:55
Yes. You know, I’ve never had this problem. Like a lot of people that I talked to: “We try so hard to be diverse”, etc. And for me, it’s not a problem because I have a lot of women who messaged me, and who asked me, “Hey, can you connect me to this person?” “Or, hey, I’d love to know if I can join your team.” “Do you think you need someone like me?” etc, etc. And it’s because they feel comfortable and they see me I’m a woman, and I’m a CEO of my Esports company. So if you have more decision-makers that are women in leadership positions, then a lot of those things will shift. If you are an investor and you want to invest it, key priority that you want to invest into female founders, there’s still not a lot of female founders startups are that are getting funding and Esports is not an exemption. The obstacle there is it’s really a boys club. And if you are not going to make an effort into making your leadership team or at least your senior directors or VPs to be more diverse, then it’s going to be an ongoing problem. So.
Karen Swyszcz 28:04
That’s a good point.
In your previous response, you mentioned gaming and Esports. I automatically or I initially assumed that they were interchangeable. Is there a big difference between the two like gaming and Esports? Are they two separate things?
Arwina Mogul 28:19
I would say that I mean, Esports will not exist without gaming, of course. Gaming is gaming, you play video games, people develop, design, produce video games. And then you have Esports, which is competitive gaming. I wish we actually called it competitive gaming, but Esports sounded, I guess, more brandable but, so for Esports it’s competitive gaming. So it’s video games played at a competitive level from amateur to professional level and then your different types of aspects there. So even compared to traditional sports, basketball is the game but The NBA would be the Esport. Does that make sense?
Karen Swyszcz 29:03
Oh okay. So what are some predictions technology wise if you have any for the future of professional gaming?
Arwina Mogul 29:11
Absolutely. It’s already happening. I know of a lot of different companies who incorporate advanced technology, us, our company beam.gg, included as well. So we’ve incorporated AI into our products. I’ve also seen blockchain type of products for Esports. I’ve seen computer vision for Esports. I’ve seen AR, VR for Esports as well, so it’s definitely coming. If not, it’s already here. There’s quite a few already existing actually, and I can’t wait to see even more of it coming on board because like you said Esports is still a long way before it can become you know, a very big mainstream industry project etc.
And the way that we can do that is obviously including industry and implementing technology to get us there as well.
Karen Swyszcz 30:02
What is the best advice that someone has given to you regarding entrepreneurship? If you could, like pass on some wisdom?
Arwina Mogul 30:11
Don’t get carried away by what people say (laughs). I think that is the best advice anyone could ever give me. Because it’s still the same advice that I struggle with, and that I always try to remember. So in the short line, don’t get carried away by what other people say. So this kind of touches on a lot of different things. So if you’re an entrepreneur, you know you, you will definitely have a very motivated entrepreneur friend, and you will see their successes. And the thing that you have to focus on is your own business, just because other companies or other entrepreneurs are posting, hey, I’m doing this, I’m doing that on social media. That doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re doing worse because you are your own worst critic.
So you always have to be you know your strongest cheerleader, always support yourself. Always I self talk a lot like I always motivate myself. And it’s very easy for someone to feel embarrassed that they haven’t secured a partnership or they haven’t grown that their monthly recurring revenue to 10x. There’s a lot of those things and I think it’s just, you know, don’t listen to or don’t pay attention to that. Just focus on your goals, and a lot of people and the second part of that advice is a lot of people will tell you a lot of different things.
Everyone is an expert at what they do. And when you ask them for information, take it with a grain of salt, you know your business the most. You have the most skin in the game. When someone gives you advice, that doesn’t necessarily mean they have skin in the game. So they would naturally give you the best advice that they think can work for them. But that may not work for you. So always be mindful of that.
Karen Swyszcz 32:01
Thank you. That’s really great advice on how to take advice from people (laughs).
Arwina Mogul 32:06
(laughs). Yeah, absolutely.
Karen Swyszcz 32:08
So if they want to connect with you on social media and learn more about all the cool things that beam.gg is doing, where can they find you?
Arwina Mogul 32:17
So they can find me on Twitter, on Instagram and LinkedIn, on Twitter and Instagram, I have the same handle. It’s my first name, last name, Arwina Mogul. A-R-W-I-N-A M-O-G-U-L and then on LinkedIn, I think it’s amogul only. So A-M-O-G-U-L and you can also search me on on the search bar on LinkedIn, I have a very unique name. So I’m the only one in the world with the same name. So it’s very easy to connect with me on social media.
Karen Swyszcz 32:49
I know. When I first saw your last name, I thought that is such a cool last name and how fitting is it that you’re, you know, an entrepreneur and you’ve launched like two startups. I think that’s a very cool last name (laughs).
Arwina Mogul 33:02
(laughs) Thanks. It’s kind of a blessing and a curse at the same time. Some people think I automatically think I’m this very egoistic person and think that I actually changed my last name to Mogul.
Karen Swyszcz 33:15
Oh, really? (laughs)
Arwina Mogul 33:16
But yeah, actually some people actually thought that.
Karen Swyszcz 33:21
That’s so funny.
Arwina Mogul 33:22
And this is what I mean by don’t listen to other people.
Some people do find it very interesting that I have that last name. It’s just something that I was born with. It never really was a very, you know, significant part of myself actually up until I started my entrepreneurship journey when it kind of gave meaning to my last name. So that was really cool.
Karen Swyszcz 33:46
Actually. So speaking of meaning of the last name, is anyone else in your family an entrepreneur?
Arwina Mogul 33:52
No, actually. My immediate family no one is an entrepreneur, even my grandparents, no one was on an entrepreneur. So it was also very difficult for me to kind of explain this whole thing to them, you would think that we would have with a family name like Mogul (laughs).
Right?
Karen Swyszcz 34:14
Like Oh, it’s The Moguls, they’re just you know, have so many businesses. (laughs)
Arwina Mogul 34:18
(laughs).
Yeah, you’d think that? But no, no (laughs). That would be cool. That would make my life easier. But no, we don’t have any entrepreneurs in the family except myself.
Karen Swyszcz 34:31
So thank you again for being on the show. This is a really great conversation. And I learned so much more about the Esports industry and it’s really opened my eyes. I’m really excited to like see all the upcoming things that you’re doing because I swear you’re like, everywhere, every time I see you on social. I’m on this magazine. And of course, you know, in a few weeks, you’ll be on this podcast.
Arwina Mogul 34:55
(laughs). Yeah no, I’m looking forward to sharing this on my social media as well.
Karen Swyszcz 34:58
All right, thanks again everyone for tuning in and stay tuned for more episodes. Ciao for now.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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